@Gani - Arc Mage Rotation

[Vranx (Scott)]

I admit to dropping the ball lately on my mage, my interest has been more on my warrior so I havent been reading about rotation changes since the AB clipping was fixed.

I compared our toons/performance last night. You have 100 more damage, 2% more crit and 427 haste to my 156 so I expect you to out damage me, but I was surprised at the difference in our spell use.
I used Arc Missiles 28% of the time compared to your 2%. What is your rotation now? Flamestrike, lol?

[Sunrath (Devon)]

I know it was dirrected at Gani, but im gonna throw my two cents in...

I currently do not know if this extra crit damage is additive or multiplicative. In either case, this glyph is a fairly hefty boost to AM damage. So much so, that with ABarr being nerfed, AM actually replaces ABarr in the arcane rotation.

More here...http://criticalqq.wordpress.com/2009/02/12/arcraiding-take-fourty-three/

I've been using this, and have gotten fairly close to the dps i was doing when they buffed arcane the first time...

[Vranx (Scott)]

Hmmm, Gani is the top of the dps meters without using Arc Miss much.

[ganimus]

Ok, here is the thing vranx, because i noticed the very same thing last night, when i went over the wws after the raid. 
My raid style is fitted specifically to my comfort lvl, and the things i do well, so im not overly cookie cutter, but here are a few things i think about come raid time. 10 man raids are not overly complicated, and tend towards brief boss encounters.  4-8 minutes is pretty much the thing in 10 naxx.  A 10 minute fight is very long, and fairly unusual.(dont worry, we will never reach the sapph enrage timer.  )  Considering the short fight window, I dont have serious issues running out of mana unintentionally, except when kt mana blasts me 800 times. (see my dps drop on the last kt fight) With that knowledge, my thoughts go like this.  I have 3 mana gems, 2 evocates and a 20k mana pool to get all the way through, in order to put out as much dmg as possible in that 5 minutes. Also, when mbar is not up, you are exposing yourself to a long slow cast of amissiles as a 3 buff finisher, which can be shortened or stopped by dmg taken, which is not a factor when finishing with abar.  Also, finishing with abar allows you to react faster to all the environmental changes that seem very common in the naxx boss fights.  (rain of fire, gas clouds, black/red circles, webbed people, blizzards, etc.)
Bearing these thoughts in mind, you will notice that i only used missiles as a finisher when mbar was up, and otherwise finished with abar.
You will notice another more important trend in those stats though, which leads to the more important point.  I used arcane blast nearly twice as often as you, and i will guess as to why. I do regular 3 buff stacks, often; BUT, when i pop my cd's, especially at the beginning, i use blast much more often, to burn through mana, even though it isnt quite as good a dpm(damage per mana) as amissiles is. Here is why. The short fights mean i have a hard time getting through all my mana, and with cd's popped, ablast is super fast, and can fly through mana, which, while bringing a dpm penalty, still brings a dps boost, when mana=bingo is not an issue.   This is the point that i think could help your dps the most, even if you dont use it the way i do.  Mana is our source for dps, and if you dont use it, you lose it.  If you will notice, i evocated 3 times much in boss fights as you did. I lose about 4-4.5 seconds of dps, but gain 15k mana.  Especially at the beginning of boss fights, you need to be getting those cooldowns on the clock, because any time before you have evocated is mana that you have lost.
And yes, If you are going to continue to finish your 3 buffs with a missiles, you need to make sure you have the missiles glyph now, because it adds significantly to your dps. I personally dont finish with it still, because my personal comfort zone lies outside the constant use of channeled spells, but that doesnt necesarrily make it good for my dps.
I like mage talk, its good to have other active mages to bounce ideas off, so if you guys have ideas for me to try different things, im always willing to listen and attempt.

[Bashr]

Gani --

How about stop dying to shades? :-)

-Bashr

[Vranx (Scott)]

I was using blast and stacking it to three on the boss mobs. I was also starting most boss fights with my cd's. I would look over and you would be evocating while I still had over half my mana. Im thinking you having almost 300 more haste is a major factor.

[ganimus]

hmm. i just looked at our comparative armories, and i assume a large part of the dps difference is my 100 sp, 2.5% crit, and 250 haste benefits. Those should be easy to overcome though, since all my stuff is 10 man gear anyway. It will be easier to compare rotations once we have similar gear.  I do know that arcane is not as simple as some spec's though, because i have out dps'ed mages in all t7.5 gear significantly in my pugs.  Just gotta keep pushing the mana envelope.

[Sunrath (Devon)]

I think Gani might have hit it on the head, although i havn't run with either of you much latley.

I destroyed a 25 man OS pug the other night. We finished with only 20 i think, and i was nearly 1k above the second DPS, and he was an arcane mage as well.

The things i noticed the most....

He/she put his FM on a hunter, instead of one of the two priests we had, or even my self. I saw he had low crit, so once we lost the H Pally we had, mine went to jerg. His/hers should have at least gone to me then, if not Evea or the Resto Shammy.

He hardly ever used his MBarr procs. I will always stack to 3 AB buffs, then if theres no MBar proc up, use ABar. Unless im burning CD's, which I do the same as Gani. ABlast until I can Evocate. **

He/she also harly ever evocated. We had one of the Drakes up that we lost half the raid pretty fast beacuse it was a horrible pull (I'm pretty sure Jerg remebers, we pulled a pat, and got the Drake too.) I evocated 4 times on that one drake, went through all my gems, and a mana pot. (yes, it was that long. It was pathetic. I'm supprised we didn't wipe.) The other mage was wanding a few times while waiting for mana regen, not sure why he wasn't being aggresive with his evocates and gems.


Arcane is not about the mana you have, it's about the mana you have, and could have, being turned into damage as fast as possible.

I like mage talk, its good to have other active mages to bounce ideas off, so if you guys have ideas for me to try different things, im always willing to listen and attempt.

I couldn't agree with this more


**I'm using the gliph for AM, and with 3 stacks up, and an MBar proc, it can get my dps nearly to the point it was at before they nerf'd us. But you have to put the points into the pushback resistance while channeling AM, or it won't work with the current encounter setups.

[Vranx (Scott)]

He/she put his FM on a hunter.

I would think any dps class would have higher crit then a healer. For example, Olefin has 28.54% crit to Jergens 14.8 or Bashrs 12.6.

He hardly ever used his MBarr procs. I will always stack to 3 AB buffs, then if theres no MBar proc up, use ABar. Unless im burning CD's, which I do the same as Gani. ABlast until I can Evocate. **

ABlast x3 with a finisher or continous ABlast past 3?

Im thinking ABlast x3 with ABarr unless MBarr procs. If MBarr procs it becomes the finisher followed by an ABarr. So the only time I would use Arc Miss is on the proc but I would still be using it more then Gani did.

[Sunrath (Devon)]

Im thinking ABlast x3 with ABarr unless MBarr procs. If MBarr procs it becomes the finisher followed by an ABarr. So the only time I would use Arc Miss is on the proc but I would still be using it more then Gani did.

That's the idea. If I'm burning CD's, I'm usually Ablasting until I have to evocate. Nothing else in there for a rotation, just spamming. Boring, but the crits can get insane.

I would think any dps class would have higher crit then a healer. For example, Olefin has 28.54% crit to Jergens 14.8 or Bashrs 12.6

yes, but it doesn't proc off of anything besides a spell crit as far as i know. there for a caster at all would usually be a better choice for FM then a melle or a hunter.

[Vranx (Scott)]

I think im understanding now. If all you do is spam ABlast then every spell you are casting has the increased damage buff.

Forgot about the focus being only for spells, I would still put it on a dps over a healer though.

[Jergen]

I have 21+% crit now 

[Bashr]

What exactly is Focus spell? Does it do something if the Focus gets a crit?

-Bashr

[Vranx (Scott)]

Talent in the Arcane tree:
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=54648

Gani and I normally just put it on each other.

[Bashr]

I could see why a healer would get it -- due to AOE healing -- POM,  COH, Chain Healing, etc. Something to think about -- I haven't fully yet. Back to writing a beheameath of an application.

-Bashr

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